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	<title>Comments on: a retirement fund for your javascript</title>
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	<link>http://www.garann.com/dev/2012/a-retirement-fund-for-your-javascript/</link>
	<description>web development, UI issues, HTML, CSS, Javascript, and shit talking</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 28 Dec 2012 13:30:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Jamie</title>
		<link>http://www.garann.com/dev/2012/a-retirement-fund-for-your-javascript/#comment-3420</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2012 16:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.garann.com/dev/?p=279#comment-3420</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I found your blog after harassing you about online chats on @jshotline. i am also renovating a house so of course I felt compelled to read your blog a bit! This is a fascinating post, and something I&#039;ve given a good bit of thought to. I&#039;ve upgraded jQuery in substantial projects occasionally, but almost never for new features, rather, for bug fixes. The explosion of minimalist frameworks speaks to the desires of the community: we want something to make our selectors work in old browsers and deal with some annoying stuff like &quot;opacity&quot; css and inconsistent DOM element method implementation. And probably an ajax wrapper. 

Everything else? Not so much. jQuery has become the kitchen sink. I use an awesome library called &quot;when.js&quot; for promises and lots of other specific-purpose tools even though jQuery has a promises implementation. I&#039;ve written my own stuff for a lot of UI things like tooltips, underscore-type utility functions, and so on. I&#039;ve basically got my own framework, pieced together from my own work and the work of others. It&#039;s not that well organized, but I like my own choices or implementations of each feature better than the ones included in jQuery. I did some work to make a jquery plugin I wrote zepto compatible a while ago, and found it took only about one screenful of polyfills to cover all the non-core jQuery methods I was using. I just don&#039;t use most of jQuery.

I think the important part of the evolution is adoption of standards for how our code interoperates like CommonJS. The rise of Node has also done a lot to pave a path for this, and if people start adopting design standards that allow for trouble-free plugging of modules, things will be awesome.  But I don&#039;t think that a big, universal framework is in the future (what jQuery has kind of become) because one size just doesn&#039;t fit all when you have a hundred different possible platforms your code could be running on.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found your blog after harassing you about online chats on @jshotline. i am also renovating a house so of course I felt compelled to read your blog a bit! This is a fascinating post, and something I&#8217;ve given a good bit of thought to. I&#8217;ve upgraded jQuery in substantial projects occasionally, but almost never for new features, rather, for bug fixes. The explosion of minimalist frameworks speaks to the desires of the community: we want something to make our selectors work in old browsers and deal with some annoying stuff like &#8220;opacity&#8221; css and inconsistent DOM element method implementation. And probably an ajax wrapper. </p>
<p>Everything else? Not so much. jQuery has become the kitchen sink. I use an awesome library called &#8220;when.js&#8221; for promises and lots of other specific-purpose tools even though jQuery has a promises implementation. I&#8217;ve written my own stuff for a lot of UI things like tooltips, underscore-type utility functions, and so on. I&#8217;ve basically got my own framework, pieced together from my own work and the work of others. It&#8217;s not that well organized, but I like my own choices or implementations of each feature better than the ones included in jQuery. I did some work to make a jquery plugin I wrote zepto compatible a while ago, and found it took only about one screenful of polyfills to cover all the non-core jQuery methods I was using. I just don&#8217;t use most of jQuery.</p>
<p>I think the important part of the evolution is adoption of standards for how our code interoperates like CommonJS. The rise of Node has also done a lot to pave a path for this, and if people start adopting design standards that allow for trouble-free plugging of modules, things will be awesome.  But I don&#8217;t think that a big, universal framework is in the future (what jQuery has kind of become) because one size just doesn&#8217;t fit all when you have a hundred different possible platforms your code could be running on.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mozilla Hacks Weekly, May 3rd 2012 &#10025; Mozilla Hacks &#8211; the Web developer blog</title>
		<link>http://www.garann.com/dev/2012/a-retirement-fund-for-your-javascript/#comment-2837</link>
		<dc:creator>Mozilla Hacks Weekly, May 3rd 2012 &#10025; Mozilla Hacks &#8211; the Web developer blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 08:57:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.garann.com/dev/?p=279#comment-2837</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Great rant on when to take your legacy code out back with a shotgun [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Great rant on when to take your legacy code out back with a shotgun [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.garann.com/dev/2012/a-retirement-fund-for-your-javascript/#comment-2734</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2012 18:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.garann.com/dev/?p=279#comment-2734</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was just talking to the dev team I work on about this. The web community wants a native browser experience, but most of us aren&#039;t learning all the awesome things that browser vendors are trying out. Instead, everyone is content with saying they know javascript after learning framework X.

Though I do believe that frameworks will always serve as an extension to native behavior and as javascript gets more powerful, so too will the frameworks, I agree with you that the role of frameworks is shifting. People need to learn what&#039;s natively supported.

That said, awesome read. Thanks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was just talking to the dev team I work on about this. The web community wants a native browser experience, but most of us aren&#8217;t learning all the awesome things that browser vendors are trying out. Instead, everyone is content with saying they know javascript after learning framework X.</p>
<p>Though I do believe that frameworks will always serve as an extension to native behavior and as javascript gets more powerful, so too will the frameworks, I agree with you that the role of frameworks is shifting. People need to learn what&#8217;s natively supported.</p>
<p>That said, awesome read. Thanks.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: garann</title>
		<link>http://www.garann.com/dev/2012/a-retirement-fund-for-your-javascript/#comment-2378</link>
		<dc:creator>garann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2012 04:06:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.garann.com/dev/?p=279#comment-2378</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Ari - It&#039;s interesting that you feel that way about media queries. Issues aside, they certainly provide a lot more power than we&#039;ve ever gotten from CSS before. And to me they seem much less hacky than the JavaScript techniques that preceded them. At any rate, I&#039;m in favor of contributing to the development of better tools. I just think it&#039;s not a bad idea to put a layer in place in case your contributions aren&#039;t the direction a tool is heading.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ari &#8211; It&#8217;s interesting that you feel that way about media queries. Issues aside, they certainly provide a lot more power than we&#8217;ve ever gotten from CSS before. And to me they seem much less hacky than the JavaScript techniques that preceded them. At any rate, I&#8217;m in favor of contributing to the development of better tools. I just think it&#8217;s not a bad idea to put a layer in place in case your contributions aren&#8217;t the direction a tool is heading.</p>
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		<title>By: Ari</title>
		<link>http://www.garann.com/dev/2012/a-retirement-fund-for-your-javascript/#comment-2356</link>
		<dc:creator>Ari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Apr 2012 19:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.garann.com/dev/?p=279#comment-2356</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m less experienced with the history of jQuery, so this may be ill-informed, but: I think (hope) what we&#039;ll see is a continuation of the thinking that gave us jQuery in the first place. That&#039;s a hallmark of maturity in a developer community. 

(I&#039;m going out on a limb with this counterargument, because HTML5 contains loads of things that most people who don&#039;t understand semantic or multiplatform development won&#039;t use, and will continue structuring their pages like it&#039;s 2002, because right now that still works. So, one might say that the W3C made another misstep in building in a bunch of speculative features that will go the way of the marquee tag.  I don&#039;t agree with that idea. So! Counterargument!) HTML5 is *also* the product of most of the web dev community balking at the state of HTML4. We demanded a toolset that was better suited for what we hoped to accomplish. We got it. jQuery&#039;s existence is another success story, as I understand it: a small set of developers responded to demand for change, and change happened.

We&#039;re going to see this real soon now with media queries, I think: their format is unsustainable. It is hacky and awful. Writing them makes me cringe. Something else will be the media targeting hotness in a year or less. Dependence on whatever the toolchain is will not be the problem, because the tools are iterable -- we can keep demanding (and contributing to the development of) better ones. Having to go back to our code that we wrote a year ago and decide whether to gut it or rewrite it will be the problem. I would argue very strenuously against duplicating and freezing library code out of a belief that it will make your future code perform as you like. Remaining vocal and influential on the tool-development community seems like a way more responsible practice.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m less experienced with the history of jQuery, so this may be ill-informed, but: I think (hope) what we&#8217;ll see is a continuation of the thinking that gave us jQuery in the first place. That&#8217;s a hallmark of maturity in a developer community. </p>
<p>(I&#8217;m going out on a limb with this counterargument, because HTML5 contains loads of things that most people who don&#8217;t understand semantic or multiplatform development won&#8217;t use, and will continue structuring their pages like it&#8217;s 2002, because right now that still works. So, one might say that the W3C made another misstep in building in a bunch of speculative features that will go the way of the marquee tag.  I don&#8217;t agree with that idea. So! Counterargument!) HTML5 is *also* the product of most of the web dev community balking at the state of HTML4. We demanded a toolset that was better suited for what we hoped to accomplish. We got it. jQuery&#8217;s existence is another success story, as I understand it: a small set of developers responded to demand for change, and change happened.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re going to see this real soon now with media queries, I think: their format is unsustainable. It is hacky and awful. Writing them makes me cringe. Something else will be the media targeting hotness in a year or less. Dependence on whatever the toolchain is will not be the problem, because the tools are iterable &#8212; we can keep demanding (and contributing to the development of) better ones. Having to go back to our code that we wrote a year ago and decide whether to gut it or rewrite it will be the problem. I would argue very strenuously against duplicating and freezing library code out of a belief that it will make your future code perform as you like. Remaining vocal and influential on the tool-development community seems like a way more responsible practice.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: garann</title>
		<link>http://www.garann.com/dev/2012/a-retirement-fund-for-your-javascript/#comment-2271</link>
		<dc:creator>garann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 15:34:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.garann.com/dev/?p=279#comment-2271</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Bill - Yeah, I&#039;m definitely not saying go out and starting copying+pasting everything. Just trying to express my sense that we as developers need to begin weening ourselves off the idea that a library is going to solve all of our problems forever just because it does right now. I&#039;ve looked at ender, but I&#039;ve yet to use it. For right now, my approach is still to use a single library and roll-my-own for whatever it doesn&#039;t contain. But my goal is to have more discipline around adding that facade.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bill &#8211; Yeah, I&#8217;m definitely not saying go out and starting copying+pasting everything. Just trying to express my sense that we as developers need to begin weening ourselves off the idea that a library is going to solve all of our problems forever just because it does right now. I&#8217;ve looked at ender, but I&#8217;ve yet to use it. For right now, my approach is still to use a single library and roll-my-own for whatever it doesn&#8217;t contain. But my goal is to have more discipline around adding that facade.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Heaton</title>
		<link>http://www.garann.com/dev/2012/a-retirement-fund-for-your-javascript/#comment-2270</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Heaton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2012 15:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.garann.com/dev/?p=279#comment-2270</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Funny I was just working on getting ride of legacy dialog in an application with three solutions to overlays/dialogs/lightbox etc. Question, It seems to me that you are not suggesting to copy and paste every feature you want into your own codebase, but rather adding a facade into your own application that maps those desirable features to a method on your own namespace, e.g. MyCo.Deferred, MyCo.Callbacks etc. Recently I pulled these to pieces of functionality out of jQuery to use with Zepto and set up a facade to map the objects into my application&#039;s codebase. Seems fairly easy to switch between Zepto / jQuery as long I keep references to the objects I need on my own namespace. I&#039;m curious have you any opinion on ender.no.de ? -Bill]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny I was just working on getting ride of legacy dialog in an application with three solutions to overlays/dialogs/lightbox etc. Question, It seems to me that you are not suggesting to copy and paste every feature you want into your own codebase, but rather adding a facade into your own application that maps those desirable features to a method on your own namespace, e.g. MyCo.Deferred, MyCo.Callbacks etc. Recently I pulled these to pieces of functionality out of jQuery to use with Zepto and set up a facade to map the objects into my application&#8217;s codebase. Seems fairly easy to switch between Zepto / jQuery as long I keep references to the objects I need on my own namespace. I&#8217;m curious have you any opinion on ender.no.de ? -Bill</p>
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